what do you guys think? I dont think what he says is that wrong, and he does have a point were political correctness leeds you (as a nation). Bottom line, we have freedom of speech. http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jUuzdfqfc&NR=1 John
I must say I was distracted mostly by his hair doo but yes, he's obviosly right but everyone is afraid of saying it. Just hope he doesn't suffer the consequences of saying the truth and what everyone else thinks...
I watched his Fitna film the other night. I can see how some might be upset at the content. I'm surprised there hasn't been more said in the Islamic community. Click here for the English Version of Fitna the Movie Steve
Can I upload it to the gallery for you to remove. Don't recommend hosting it for obvious reasons. Steve
I agree in free speech but just because someone is able to do so, doesn't make WHAT they say to be right. Typical view of a bigot . Bet he hasn't even read the Koran. Saying that all muslims are "retarded" and are all terrorists just because of their religion, this bloke and what he says makes me sick. He sounds like a Nazi talking about the Jews... Watch this thread get out of hand and turn nasty........
yes steve you can upload it to the gallery in the video section. I dont mind. Our site doesnt have huge publicity. @Dave, we live in the western world. If you want to talk about the Nazis and Jews nobody will take that right away from you. If someone wants to make a film about it, it wont be censored. If someone wants to make a film about how bad the western world is, even if it is exaggerated, it wont be censored. John
Me also coming from holland and even the same province as Geert Wilders can say that he is right and wrong. He is right in saying terrorist use the islam/koran to rectify theire violant acts. But then again, this is no news or is it? I found it a little frustrating that he never talks about a real solution, he only repeats the problem. @ Dave, I realy don't hope we all turn in to politicians and try to solve the worlds problems on here. We are much better discussing about many spark wire fibres there are in a M3 Karim
Dave, you are quite right. There needs to be checks and balances put in place. The only way you can be sure of what is written in the Koran, is to read it yourself and my grasp of Arabic is a little rusty right now. I do have some Muslim friends and I intend to show them the Fitna vid in order to verify what is stated. Comment stating that individuals are retarded because of their believes is bordering on Nazi and quite wrong. It is my belief that the low end perpetrators of Islamic fundamentalist terrorist activity are having their beliefs manipulated by third parties in order to further the third parties gain. Education and understanding is where the future is. AFWIW Steve
John, your absolutly right. Thats why I have the right to say, what he is saying, is in my opinion misguided and based on fears created by the western world of a culture they don't understand. A huge amount of what 'we' see in the western press is censored. Free speech should not be a licence to harm the innocent because the few disregard the rights of others. If this film were made in the UK it could easily be classified as 'incitment to relgious hatred' which is a criminal act. Wether or not you agree or disagree with such laws is debate in itself. As a side note a Catholic church just had its grand opening this easter in Doha, Qatar. I can't recall this being reported in any of the press in the UK so far...
Video... http://garage.s14power.com/data/502/Fitna_The_Movie_-_Geert_Wilders_English_Ipod_.mp4 This in no way represents my views. Steve
"active" censorship is a bit different from "passive" censorship, would you agree? If people are threatened, then its a bit different. I believe people should be allowed to see and form their own opinion. We see video campaigns all the time and it is up to us to discern what is reality and what is not. This is no exception. Im not familiar with UK laws, I suppose you would be the expert on that whether that case could be made. I know that in Denmark when a newspaper posted some cartoons, a certain reaction was provoked. These sorts of cartoons are made about just about any public figure in the world, and they must endure it. John
At around the 5:12 mark he utters the most pertinent words to this whole issue..." freedom of speech ". I can call any of you guys a wanker and you might call me a prick ...but we will likely leave it at that and not bomb the crap out of each others families. I'm not saying that the bombing is restricted to any race, creed, religion, Country or anything like that. The point is...and I do believe that it is the point that he is making (well, uh hmm...trying to make), is that there are those who seize on a document, a purported ideal/ religion ...and use that to wreck havoc, kill, maim, rape, oppress, destroy etc. That....is what this is about. OK, he may have slipped up on one or two comments...but don't seize on that...look at the big picture of what is being said. It is NOT about religions and their differences. It is about those that are continually popping up and saying and doing things in the name of their so called religion. I include the early Christian crusades in that for that matter. Peace...we should all be able to have our say, however politically incorrect, and not be under threat from having that freedom taken away. For God's sake...we've seen 10's of millions of lives lost in the not to distant past to hold fast to this very principle.
John, exactly. People SHOULD see this film, and it should not have been removed from the original site it was hosted on, but viewers should also be aware that its content is being twisted to support his view. To have a true 'opinion' on its content any intelligent person would seek out if what he is actually saying is true. To do this would entail reading the Koran, something the vast majority would not do. I have done, for my own education, and the bible. Some of the reactions on the internet in support of this films content is so funny, quotes like "islam is a new religion" etc, just plain ridiculous, Jesus is even a revered Profit in Islam, bet these same people didn't know that. I might add I am not a religious person at all, quite the opposite, its just there is a growing section of our society that are being turned to hatred of muslims based on misinformation, and that is bad for us all no matter who or what religion you follow. I could quite easily start quoting passages from the bible, tanakh or whatever else and twist them to show how murder and mayhem its actively encouraged. This in itself is not the problem. If people in our society feel threatened by our governments 'bending over' and are seen in some peoples eyes to be allowing double standards, if that is the right discription, then yes there is a problem. But this is an issue of fear, and exaggerated fear. It's this very fear that our governments want to exagerate and make us all believe we are under 'attack' its an age old tatic that has been used for 1000's of years.
Interesting topic. I think censorship in Islamic Countries is the problem combined with certain Islamic scholars twisting the Koran to fit with their view (bit like the Christian Fundamentalists in the Soutehrn States of the US) The Catholic Church had a saying 'Give me a child to the age of 7 and they're mine for life'. Same with young musilms who only get to hear a twisted scholar rather than the moderates who actually try and read the context of the script rather than picking out bits to suit. I am a Catholic...but they failed! Cheers,
