The car is a custormer car and the engines are ours we could sell the car finished if that is what is required we do 2.4 for our championship. and the 2.3 is out of a car that we have just sold, and a 2.5 is normally built for tarmac rallys where they go into the open class.
Thanks for that explanation. I think you may find it more beneficial to your objectives here to state what you can offer as options. i.e. cost of car with engine fitted (specs incl.) + gearbox (specs incl.) fitted or supplied. Try that perhaps. Oh, and by the way, there are some of us on this board that do appreciate the costs of MS parts etc. Let's see where we go from here....
Id be interested in knowing if that was your idea to set the tie rods above the steering knuckles or if you had a suspension specialist come in and do it for you. Its the first rally M3 Ive seen that has the setup done that way. Ive seen other rally e30 M3 and e36 m3 they have to cope with more droop as well, and still have the tie rod underneath. Was it due to the rod ends binding at extreme travel, to high an angle? Also, from your picture it is not apparent at what height the steering rack is mounted. I have some pictures if interested. John
Here is an example. High resolution pictures are in the gallery (click on the gallery button left). I have more, but I have to find them on the computer first. One of my friends runs a 2.5l S14/6 powered E30 m3 rally car and it is on a Reiger suspension. Car is quite successful here in Germany, I have pictures of that as well, when I find them Ill post them to you. We can also take these posts out of your classified thread and move it to the main forum, not trying to interfere with your FS ad. John
To whoever has built this car. It sure looks indeed very nice and it seems like a lot of hard work has been put into that car. Nonetheless, I am a bit intrigued by some of the details. In particular the rear brakes. Because the rear will only do no more than 25% of the stopping, they usually have much smaller pistons: four 1.00" to no more than 1.25" pistons, compared with the front bigger ones, so that the balance is as close as possible and the progression linear between front and rear, and prop valve is only used to fine tune by shaving/limiting the peak pressure that would cause locking up before front. On this first picture, it looks like those pistons are quite big for rear pistons. Or maybe it is specific to rally cars? Do you know what size they are? Or is that a front caliper fitted only for adjustments? On this second shot, it looks like the brake hats are quite flat. Rear brakes can accomodate much deeper hats. Using flat hats will usually mean more fitting problems. I know I am being fussy. But at such a high price, details must be perfect to reflect the mullah being spent. Anyway, good luck in the sale.
I think your figure of 25% of braking is bit low, a front engined rear drive car with 50;50 weight split can use more like 30-35% braking in the rear, when set up properly. Also, being a rally car, they tend to run a lot of rear bias in many cases, this has the effect of breaking the rear of the car loose when approaching a corner, so you can throw it in sideways! I can't comment on the piston sizes in that pic, my eye-crometer can't tell what size they are, yours must be better than mine! What fitment problems are you talking about, regarding flat hats vs. deep hats?
Your not going to get an answer Lee, because the seller does not believe in giving specs to the parts he is selling. He will answer you though wether the paint has a defect or not... as for bias though....once you get the rear pistons more or less matched to the front pistons...then you select the master cylinder sizes (dual master brakes) to get the overall balance right. The fine tune is then with the balance bar. If you dont have dual masters then you can use a brake prop valve. but it is nice to have the rear piston sizes, rear disc diameters, pad areas, etc. matched to the front brake setup to give the correct fundamental brake balance. John
You wont get an answer on this either. I asked a very simple question and have gotten nothing but BS answers. Not even an answer as to who set this up?! I figure it was someone else since no answer is forthcoming. The "this is rally, not race" answer doesnt wash here. I would accept a plausible engineering explanation, but there is none that I could find... John
Yeah I wasn't expecting much from Mr Newbold. But a few quick sketchs would suggest to me that that offset would cause bump steer. It also looks very much like that tie rod is simple fitted on the wrong side. But I could be wrong!
OK , well , The car looks awesome Paul. There are questions and maybe some unanswered questions. Instead of all the silly stuff... can you Paul just take a little more time please to explain matters ? Especially when questions are being asked. I mean...it simply does not make sense to begin a communication and then stop it (or hinder it) in mid-stream. Moreover...do we have some misunderstandings going on here ?
Re the discussion on the steering arms, I have recently been doing the front wheel alignment on one of my cars and I have always noticed that the front wheels toed out quite badly when the car was jacked up. With car sitting on the ground I could see that the steering arm and the lower suspension arm were at completely different angles. I then found that the steering track rods were mounteded on the top of the steering knuckles. By refitting the steering arms underneath the steering knuckles, the angles were almost identical, and as both arms were of the same length and moved through similar arcs, the bump steer was eliminated. Having said this I have raced the car at several meetings and it does not appear to have caused me any problems.I guess the stiff suspension did not allow much movement in bump, and therefore minimal bump steer, other than under braking, where the added toe possibly contributed to straight ahead stability. Looking at the pictures of the rally car in question, the arms do appear to be at differnet angles, which would inevitably lead to bump steer.Although having looked again the steering rods may be a bit shorter than the lower arms, in which case they may still move through similar arcs when mounted as they are.
Come on guys! There is no need for this, You lot look like a pack of bullies! Could it be that there is a clearance issues with the tie rod knuckle and disk? And thats why it was put on like this? Andrew
Andrew, I really do not understand what you are saying about the pack of bullies thing. Please...what is bothering you here ?
This is the right approach, i know i don't post much on here anymore, but talk about petty bickering, if Paul Doesn't understand why these things are done then he should put his hands up, if he doesn't want us to know then thats a different matter ?
Well it seems to me that we are investigating Paul’s understandings/comprehensions of race car techniques and dynamics and not the sale of the car! Some might argue those two go hand in hand, but there’s no need to embarrass the guy! NO association with the Seller ETC! My last post on the matter.
To me this site is all about contribution from its members and in this case it is not happening. Just because a person has been involved for 20+ years does not mean he has knowledge on the subject - - 'Some take longer to learn than others' - I have said that to many a supposed professional. If someone cannot/will not justify why something has been done - especially when it is being sold then it should raise eyebrows. If a person does not want to be open to question then do not post on this forum - that should be in the membership joining requirements. Karl
It looks like indeed, the only plausible reason for mounting the steering rod above the steering arm, is to clear the rotor. Being mounted in the proper position (under) would have the rod end severely interfere with the discs. On a rally car with such wheel travel, I suspect it will induce major bumpsteer and alignment problems. Solution? Move the disc out by at least 15mm (that's a lot and most likely not feasable), or move inward the steering rod pick-up point. Is that possible that the left and right knuckles have been swapped? Also, it sems that the steering rod will also hit the lower suspension assembly on hard turns.
